Has anyone used a Covered Baker?

I was wondering if any of you have or have heard of the covered baking dish that is desigend to bake crusty french bread that's crispy outside and a moist chewy inside. They are made of clay and run about $50.00. I just don't want to invest only to find out they aren't necessary.

Thanks, Cathy

Well - I make crusty Italian bread - and I spritz the loaves with water (light spray) after the first 5 minutes of baking and again after the first 10 minutes of baking. Crusty on the outside - soft on the inside.

And my little spritz bottle only cost me 59 cents.

And I have spritzed my French bread as well.

Works for me.

Mama, you're spritzing the actual loaves, rather than the sides and bottom of the oven?

And, have you tried the trick about adding ice-cubes to a pan when you put the dough in? I haven't tried it, yet, but it's said to 1. add more moisture than spraying (almost the equal of steam injection, I'm told), and, 2. be safer.

Moisture?

If it is a moisture issue could we not simply place a little pan of water in bottom shelf of the stove?

I do like the idea of not spending $50.00 unnecessarily, I guess I just get caught up in these Baker's catalogue's and think "How nifty I WANT THAT"! And I am getting a little older and wiser and realizing I don't need every "Gimmick" out there. But when I had my pizza stone I LOVED it! And I was thinking maybe this clay gadget to bake bread in might be really terrific! But it sound like a wate of money, if all I have to do is spritz a little!

Thanks ALL, Cathy

I spritz the loaf of bread - not the oven - not the door - the bread. No pan of water beneath it. Been done like that for generations in my family - why stop now. No way would I add ice cubes to the pan for MY bread!

Hey, Mama, if it ain't broke, no need to fix it. I was just asking.

Yes, Cathy, you can put a pan of water under the bread. Some bakers, such as Peter Reinhart, go that route. The idea is to heat the pan as the oven preheats, then pour-in a cup of water when you put the dough in, creating a burst of steam.

He usually combines that technique with spritzing the oven (rather than the bread).

Dan Leader recommends the ice-cubes in the pre-heated pan. His idea is that every time you open the oven to spritz you are lowering the temperature radically. With the ice-cubes you don't have to keep opening the door. Plus there's a safety issue. One drip on the glass door and you could be in the market for a new stove---or worse.

All of these techniques, and others, are meant as ways the home baker can replicate the injected-steam systems available on commercial ovens. And it's that steam that helps create a crisp crust.

If you care about the science behind it, first understand that a crust is formed by the caremalization of natural sugars (themselves a byproduct of the fermentation process). Steam (or any moisture) helps promote the formation of a sugar slurry on the surface of the dough.

That is very interesting. I do agree if you've got a system down why change mid-course. But I am going to try the hot pan with ice added. Good lordy I just hate the thought of breaking the darned oven door glass, I kind of picture a real klutz doing that number, and I am no klutz, but one never knows when one might change drastically overnight

Thanks KYH & MamaM

The CCC aint' for Klutz---just fo' de record!

You don't have to be a klutz, Cathy. All it takes is for the spritzer to leak.

Happened to a friend of mine. One drop on the glass when the oven was at 550F. Rather dramatic, she told me. And, of course, a new stove.

I'm very careful, when spritzing, to not hold the sprayer over the glass door, and to make sure none of the spray hits the lightbulb.

Wow I'll bet that did scare her and it could have cut her as well, not to mention clean up! Speaking of cost here if it really did happen that you leaked on the glass door the cost of replacing the stove would be more than buying the covered baker! Hummmm Good food for thought, and the stove at the new house does have a glass door, unlike the one we use now.

By the way KYH I am now going to have room to grow all the herbs I want to, and plenty of sunny areas. I am so excited! And we even had to buy.... A lawnmower! I feel like a kid in a candy store! And now I want a nice sewing machine and .....................well the list is so long! I am just jumping with joy, and the very best part, the big move is taking place on Fri while I am at work and all over by the time I get off all I will have to do is unpack and decorate!!! Now what more could a gal ask for!

Now what more could a gal ask for!

Well, let's see......

A lady's maid.
A personal chef.
Somebody to dust, vacuum, and do the dishes.
A box of bon bons.
And, most of all, somebody to rub your feet.

On A Serious Note

Before you start worrying about terra cotta bakers, or replacing stoves, it is important that you read (and, if possible, own):

"The Bread Baker's Apprentice," by Peter Reinhart.
"Local Breads," by Dan Leader.

While there are numerous others dealing with artisan bread baking, these two will serve as instructors for you into the whole world of delayed and retarded fermentation; steam injection (and it's home equivilent), hearth-style baking, etc.

If nothing else, until you're familiar with the techniques and methods they discuss, you can't really do whole-grain breads successfully.

You'll also discover the reasons for things like steam-injection, and can then decide whether spritizing is something you want to do, facing the negligible risk of stove-damage.

The point is, knowing how bread happens allows you to make informed decisions about the steps you will and will not take.

A lot of this, of course, goes way beyond throwing some flour, salt, yeast and water in a bowl, then popping it in the oven after shaping and a short rise (yes, 1-2 hours is considered short). For instance, cooling on the rack now, calling me to break-off a piece, are two loaves of Reinhart's Pane Siciliano---a wonderful bread made with semolina flour.




Sorry for the pause. I couln't resist, and am chewing a piece even as we speak.

To get to this point I started three days ago, when I mixed the pre-ferment and let it sit overnight. Yesterday I made the main dough, let it proof, shaped the loaves, and let them sit in the fridge overnight. This morning I baked the bread.

Not everyone is willing to go through this sort of thing. But once you do, and discover the incredible difference artisan baking makes, the trip is worthwhile.

Thank you so much, I know I do have to get that book ASAP! You've mentioned it before and I simply get side tracked, alot going on around here! But thanks loads for the reminder I need a nudge right now!

One of our new members Lizgirl was speaking of her possibly having an allergy to wheat, and I was thinking maybe she can experiment with for instance semolina flour and see if there is any improvement. So since you mentioned the Reinhart's Pane Siciliano just now I am excited to share this with her, just in hopes it will help her out!

Thanks a million, Cathy

Cook Chatty Cathy said:

I was wondering if any of you have or have heard of the covered baking dish that is desigend to bake crusty french bread that's crispy outside and a moist chewy inside. They are made of clay and run about $50.00. I just don't want to invest only to find out they aren't necessary.

Thanks, Cathy

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Well, I am not sure about something like that, but I do use something similar for cooking my bead...I used a Mario Batali dutch oven for cooking my bread....the thing that it does for bread is amazing. Make the bread slightly more watery than you normally would and cook it covered at 450 for 20 minutes and then uncovered at 395 for 15....this allows the water in the bread to steam the crust....which is what gives the crust that amazing texture and leaves the inside moist and soft....works GREAT!.

Thank you George and welcome to our Forum.
I hope you will enjoy it as much as I do!!!

CCCathy

Cook Chatty Cathy said:

Thank you George and welcome to our Forum.
I hope you will enjoy it as much as I do!!!

CCCathy

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Thanks! I am sure I will as I love talking food and cooking, and especially breads! I love bread and I love cooking bread...

If you ever need a dutch oven I would seriously give my method a try....I have tried everything in the past to get my crust perfect...I tried spraying water in the oven, I tried throwing ice cubes on the floor of the over and nothing ever worked till I the dutch oven.

There's been a lot of work done with over-hydration by artisan bakers the past few years. This is the first I've heard of the covered-Dutch oven technique.

I'm not unhappy with my crusts. But I might try it just to see what happens.

Thanks, George.

KYHeirloomer said:

There's been a lot of work done with over-hydration by artisan bakers the past few years. This is the first I've heard of the covered-Dutch oven technique.

I'm not unhappy with my crusts. But I might try it just to see what happens.

Thanks, George.

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I should have added.....when you pre heat the oven, put the dutch oven in to let it heat up as well....and also, a ceramic coated cast iron is probably the best to use.....hope you try it, you won't be disappointed.

Hey George,

Thank You For The Great Tip, You Can Bet I Will Try It!!! I Am Actually Dying To Try It, And If My Bread Turns Out Like I Want It To I Will Probably Make It Very Often! I Love A Good Crusty Loaf Of French Or Italian.

Cccathy

Cook Chatty Cathy said:

Hey George,

Thank You For The Great Tip, You Can Bet I Will Try It!!! I Am Actually Dying To Try It, And If My Bread Turns Out Like I Want It To I Will Probably Make It Very Often! I Love A Good Crusty Loaf Of French Or Italian.

Cccathy

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Did you ever try this? I need to post a picture of my bread using this technique.....I will try and do that sometime this week.

Hi George,
I still have not bought the ceramic coated cast iron pan. I will be doing so soon, and really want to try my hand at the French Bread!

Thanks for asking, Cathy