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Finally, real sourdough..

Jafo232

Jafo232

New member
It has been a trial up here getting a sourdough starter err..... started.. With so many projects, I have let this one fall off. I threw out my old starter when we moved. I wanted to get yeasts from my new area and start from scratch.

So I set up the water and flour method and left out the container covered with a towel and began catching yeast. I thought it was going good, put it in the fridge, and poof, it either moved out or died.

So again, I set it up, and finally a couple days ago it was bubbling and having a good ol time. I have been feeding it about a 1/2 cup of rye flour a day, 1/4 cup in the morning, another at night. The bread I made yesterday was incredible. It was SO sour! :) My old starter tasted nothing like this. I am assuming the change of area just brought in a totally different strain of yeast/bacteria. Whatever it is, I love it.

I am really a bit apprehensive about putting it in the fridge, yet don't want to be tied down feeding it every day. I just don't make bread that often (about twice a week). Any ideas why it died out the first time I refrigerated it? I mean, I let it warm up for two days (and fed it) last time and nothing.

I guess I should split it up, and try again with one half and see if it recovers.
 
When I made my starter it took over a week to develop and I fed it each night. After the first week I then put it in the fridge but feed it once a week. When I feed it I will add 1 cup of flour and one cup of spring water. Usually when a starter goes bad a pink liquid will be on the surface. I learned the hard way not to ever make a starter in a metal container, lol. Also when I use any for my bread I replace what I use. Do you make a sponge with your starter the night before you make your bread?
 
Sounds like maybe it was just not a good starter to begin with? In Beard on Bread he pretty much says, if a starter hasn't developed in a few weeks it ain't going to get a lot better.
However, the one I have now I started in '98. There are several stories with it, have taken some of it to work, all over Alaska and half way around the world, came home and added it back to the mother jar.

When I worked in logging camps (before lots of water regs), the camps were floating and we moved around Southeast Alaska from job to job. We got water on a gravity feed from the nearest creek. Aways a surprise as to all the bread acted with different water. On time there was an artesian spring nearby. Water tasted great, but with lack of minerals, the bread was boring.

Reminds me of all the people I have met in Florida from New York and Chicago who swear you can't make bread or especially pizza with the water there.

If it gets pink it is dead and dangerous. When I am home, sometimes for several months, mine gets almost a black hootch on top, mix it all in with equal flour and water, toss half and do it again until it is fairly white.

Have you read Bourdain's Kitchen Confidental--where the amazing baker is a mess in every way!!! would call in and tell guys on duty "you must feed the b**ch!".

Enjoy the new "kid" and Merry Christmas!
Nan
 
RE: "Have you read Bourdain's Kitchen Confidental--where the amazing baker is a mess in every way!!! would call in and tell guys on duty "you must feed the b**ch!"."

Although many have recommended it, I haven't read "Kitchen Confidential", Nan- but now I have to!

I never worked much w/ Sourdough until Alaska. It's impossible to run a kitchen up north without offering it in all it's forms from pancakes & waffles to biscuits...
 
My starter eventually bit the dust and it is so cold here right now, I don't feel like getting it going again. Will probably start one in the spring.
 
Jafo232 said:
My starter eventually bit the dust and it is so cold here right now, I don't feel like getting it going again. Will probably start one in the spring.
Click to expand...

I'm thinking back to the pioneer days when all the settlers were crossing the frontier. I would think that each family had a sour dough starter. It was probably a means for survival, lol.
It's sad to think that in this day and age, if your starter goes bad you can't go to a family member or a friend and they would give you some. No one really makes sour dough any more. It's a shame.
 
RE: "I'm thinking back to the pioneer days when all the settlers were crossing the frontier. "

Sourdough is still HUGE in Alaska- precisely because of these frontier days that you describe. Afterall- the frontier days aren't that distant to many Alaskans living a remote lifestyle in a harsh clime, and in many regions, it still IS those days- Ha! In fact, sourdough is such a part of The Last Frontier State that the actual term "Sourdough" is used to signify a true time-tested "pioneer" of the state- or someone who's lived there a long time.

A quick sidenote: One of my favorite restaurants in Anchorage is the "Sourdough Mining Company". Here's a link if you'd care to check out their scrumptious meat & potatoes/ribs/seafood/steakhouse menu chock-full of Alaskan classics! (click on the "menus" tab at the top, then select catering menu, lunch menu, dinner menu, etc. I always took visiting friends & family there for a "real" Alaskan dining experience!)

Sourdough Mining Company | Anchorage, Alaska
 
I watched one of those "How it's made" shows on the history channel a few years ago and they were doing San Fransisco sourdough. They had the head bread guy somewhere there in SF explaining how their starter was a couple hundred years old or some such thing.

This episode is what got me sold on trying to make my own starter. He explained that if you took a truckload of this starter and brought it say, to Manhattan it would do you no good. For a couple weeks sure, you would have real SF tasting sourdough but eventually the local yeasts and bacteria would find their way into it and completely change the flavor.

I think that "localness" of the yeast is the most appealing part of the entire thing. Anything you can make that very few can is always a plus. Doesn't matter how good a cook say, Cathy is, no matter what she does, she cannot make the same tasting bread as me, and vice versa when it comes to the sourdough because she lives in a different area.
 
Jafo, I grew up in Up State New York. We had our sourdough bread that was and still is excellent. Of course it isn't a San Fransisco sourdough, lol. It was a NY sourdough. There is a bread baker in the same area that has gained some notoriety through the past years that makes excellent artisan style breads. His name is Daniel Lerner. He put out an excellent cook book several years ago called Bread Alone. He has been on PBS several times to baking as a guest on several of the stars shows. It's an excellent read that goes through the scientific methods for baking breads, making sour doughs and levains. He goes through step by step methods, tells the history on everything from starters, sponges, poolishes and recipes. In his opinion, the Catskill Mountains in New York State provides the best air for natural yeast. I am sure that any good baker from any where would say the same about their area.
I believe that when a person makes their own starter, nurtures it and makes wonderful bread with it, that's what really matters. When you take a loaf of homemade bread from the oven, cut through that thick crust and lather on the butter and take a bite. That's what is all about. Not where your from, not the yeast, not whether it's the best bread in the world. That's not what it's about. Taking that first bite of hot bread that you just baked to me is like picking that first ripe tomato of the season from your garden.
 
The Ironic Chef said:
I believe that when a person makes their own starter, nurtures it and makes wonderful bread with it, that's what really matters. When you take a loaf of homemade bread from the oven, cut through that thick crust and lather on the butter and take a bite. That's what is all about. Not where your from, not the yeast, not whether it's the best bread in the world. That's not what it's about. Taking that first bite of hot bread that you just baked to me is like picking that first ripe tomato of the season from your garden.
Click to expand...

Oh absolutely IC, I could not agree with you more!

After discussing it with Jafo I am going to try my hand at it. What I have decided upon is to let my bowl of starter sit on a table in our screened in room outside to catch the yeast. I am even going to drive over to a place called Cave Spring, Georgia and draw up some natural spring water that bubbles up there [all the locals come to the spring and fill up gallon jugs of fresh water] I am now so excited to see what the results will be. I am even going to buy a new dish towel that has never been washed in bleached water to cover the dough with so that the bleach residue in my towel covering the dough does not impede the natural yeast. Wish me luck guys! I will let you know, GOSH I LOVE SOUR DOUGH BREAD!!!! This will be a real treat for Christmas. Thank you everone for all the great in-put, your sharing has helped me loads!
 
I lived in the Catskills for a long time. I had a pretty decent starter there. Now in the Adirondacks. The starter I had here was great while it lived. Unfortunately I killed it by not paying attention. I actually preferred my Adirondack starter much more, but i think your right. In the end, it is what YOU like more than anything else.
 
Ive been reading your comments on sourdough and I am very impressed by all of you
and your knowledge on how to make it! I grew up in a small village, my mother had her
sourdough which she used every time she baked bread.She would used it up all every time
and she kept a little dough to use as sourdough the next time she made fresh bread.
Where can I find a recipe to make my sourdough?
I love to bake bread but I start with commercial yeast and the results are not so
satisfying.
 
There are numerous ways of starting a sourdough. One of the simplest is to make a biga, and let it ferment about three days. Put it in the fridge, and feed it once a week by discarding one cup and replacing it with 4 ounces each of flour and water. Over time, the commercial yeast will be replaced by wild yeast.

Or you can start with a "levain," which is the French approach. Here are the instructions, adapted from Dan Leader's Bread Alone. First make a "chef":

Day 1:

4 oz bran wheat flour
4 oz spring water
Pinch (less than 1/16 teaspoon) dry yeast.

Combine flour, water and yeast in a tall plastic container with a lid. Stir to make a thick, soft dough. Cover with the lid and let satnd in a warm place for 24 hours.

Day 2:

4 oz bran wheat flour
4 oz spring water

The chef should have almost doubled in volume and there will be tiny bubbles on the surface. Add the flour and water to the mixture and stir vigorously to distribute the fresh ingredients and add oxygen. Texzture will be like a soft dough. Scarpe down the sides, cover, and place in a warm, draft-free place for 24 hours.

Day 3:

4 oz bran wheat flour
4 oz spring water.

The chef will now have the texture of a thick batter. It will have almost doubled in volume and be quite bubbly. It will have a pronounced musty, but not bitter, flavor. Scent will be aggressively vinegary.

Add the flour and water and stir well to make a thick batter. With a marker pen, mark the level of the chef on the side of the container. Scrape down the sides, cover tightly, and let stand in a warm, draft-free place for 24 hours.

You now have a fully ripe chef, ready to make into a levain (which is what Americans call a "mother" or "starter."

About 8 hours before you intend starting your dough you make the levain. For the Levain starter:

6 oz bran wheat flour
full batch of the chef

Add the flour directly into the container with the full batch of room-temperature chef. Stir vigorously to add fresh oxygen to the mixture. This will form a stiff consistency, more like a stiff dough than a batter. Scrape down the sides, cover tightly, and let stand in a warm, draft-free place for 8-10 hours.

The levain should have doubled in volume. Texture will be somewhat light, with many tiny bubbles throughout. Do not let the levain stand for longer than 10 hours or the yeast will become exhausted and not raise the final dough.

Maintaining the chef is quite simple. Use all but 1 cup of the levain. To the remainder add 2.5 ouce bran wheat flour and 7 oz water. If you'll be using it within 36 hours you can leave it out (this actually helps the fermentation and makes a more sour starter). If not, put it in the fridge, and feed it at least once a week. To feed:

Remove one cup of the chef and use or discard. To the remainder add 4 ounces each of water and flour. Stir well to incorporate oxygen. Store in the fridge.

All of this is time consuming, but not difficult. I started my levain in November, using these directions, and make bread, rolls, or pancakes with it about once a week, at the same time I feed it.
 
I made my Sour Dough Starter just about the same way. The only difference, I used unbleached flour instead of bran flour. The type of flours from one country to another vary though, I would suggest the use of flour in a starter should be whatever flour you use to make your favorite bread. The less refined, the better.
 
Thank you both so much for the recipe and the suggestions. I am really impressed
of all the trouble you go to in order to make a trully good bread! I am a bread lover
and so is my family and I will definately try your recipes!
 
I don't know if "going to the trouble" is really the right phrase. Bread making is something you either are passionate about or not. If the passion is there, you do whatever is required.

I didn't grow up in a baking environment. For many years, if I made bread at all, I slavishly followed a recipe, with no clue as to what was really going on. This all changed only a couple of years ago, with my "discovery" of Peter Reinhart's work. Now I bake bread at least weekly. And I figure maybe, in another 20 years or so, I can actually call myself a baker.

>.....starter should be whatever flour you use to make your favorite bread...<

Or whatever you have available. I think the flour used in the starter is the least important part of the equation. The goal is to capture wild yeast and provide them with an environment in which they can grow and reproduce.
 
I know bread is something folks are really passionate about. Me? I just don't get it! But, honestly- I know I'm in the minority- so I know better than to make fun...
 
Dear KYHeirloomer

You are so right, "going to the trouble" was not the right choice of words!
I just meant you do or have to learn so much to make good bread and most
of all, love doing it. I am 61 years old, I have been watching my mom making
bread for many years (she would bake it outdoor in a wood-burning oven,and when
she took it out the smell and taste was incredible!) I have been making bread for
my family for 10-15 years and never imagine that there are so many "secrets".
I was never quite happy with my bread, but did not know what to do about it
till I joined this forum.
Thank you so much for all the advice!
 
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